P3at; You are confusing these guys with facts. Jerry in MI.

It doesn't make sense. Your livelyhood is struggling, the economy sucks, and you dispute previously negotiated concessions? Wouldn't you, as an employee do anything possible to save your employer's future? The alternative is far worse (unemployment). Maybe some one can explain?

Bush did it......just ask dahaub

I don't know a lot about the pay scale. I do know that Ford is making a car that is rated higher in quality than the Toyota and Lexus and Infinity. At least that was what was reported within the last week. I forget who did the rating. I guess I was so amazed to hear it that I just blanked out. I do drive Fords because I think they are a good vehicle. IMHO

Setterman.....They have made concessions. As you can tell its not what the hourly worker can do for the company its the complete annihilation of their rights that these guys are after. That way they can play lord of the manor so to speak and look down on everyone else.

Your union friend, Bill:)

It's hard to play "lord of the manor" when the manor is bankrupt.

I'm talking about some of these so called posters

As I understand it. The rank and file felt since Ford did not require nor request government assistance, since high level management did not themselves take extraordinary reductions in benefits and pay, it was not reasonable for them to take the same hits as Chrysler and GM workers took.

I have never heard a Union guy say he worked for Ford, GM or other. It's always Local whatever. They have no loyality to the manufacture, just the Union. I just purchased a new Ford product. Considered all the imports and choose the Ford. Alot of product for the money. Would not even consider Govt Motors or Chrysler. No union fan here. JMO, Jake

We recently bought a Ford van as we have always tried to buy American. However, this will be our last American brand vehicle. It dawned on us that by buying American we are supporting the unions who support Obama. We will buy vehicles built in America, but not by unions. It is time to cut off funds for the Democrats.

Rutger, I agree in principle but you make a big mistake thinking the rank and file all vote Democrat just because Big Labor is in bed with the Democrats. Plenty of conservatives in all the union places I ever worked.

As far as the product itself goes, If Ford is the best, and can compete with the non union made brands, why would you deprive yourself?

One issue voting and thinking is not conducive to a proper society. The recent quitter in New york was pro gun, which I like. She was also pro abortion, which I hate.

Think before you shoot.

HM

At the risk of sounding like I am supporting bigdon.....Those that do not live amongst the UAW of the Big 3, CAT, DEERE and etc., do not realize what the rub is. You really have to live and work around them to understand.

Having said that, not all uaw workers work for the Big 3 and may be unjustly accused of being involved.

Remember the time when we were told that if the steel industry were to go down the country would collapse.

Workers made consessions in the 80's that saved Chrysler, paid back ALL of the government loans WITH interest. Workers made Chrysler the most profitable car company in the world. Every industry professional noted that the quality of the Chrysler product was going up year after year, because the managment decided to make that a goal. The Germans bought BOB EATON, he gave them Chrysler. The 9 BILLION cash savings to cover pensions was STOLEN by the germans. I spent 10 years working at a Chrysler plant. Now I have a letter on my desk signed by a Federal Judge that says I will not be getting any of my partial pension whe I turn 65, even though multiple levels of management on both sides of the ocean paid themselves multi million dollar bonuses for their "great performance". Tough crap for me. I must have defective loyalty

I was skilled trades, an Instrument and Controls Technician. I paid for my own college and I served a 4 year training with the IBEW. I never assembled a single car part. I saw enough 1st hand that I KNOW that the quality of the car is not a line worker issue. Fact: A worker does not like building crap with junk parts. A worker does not like working on junk machines that make bad parts. A worker does not like forcing out of spec parts together. A worker does not like the finished product to fail. A worker will produce the quality that the management demands Management will compromise quality to get numbers that gives them bonus money. All of these things make a workers life more difficult, no body wants to work harder to accomplish less.

The biggest thing the last 40 years of Auto Company Management accomplished is making themselves rich by screwing the customers with compromised quality while convincing the mindless masses that it is totally the fault of the dumb UAW workers. The problem will never be solved by beating down the people who are not responsible for the failures and have no authority or empowerment to make the changes.

The true story of any issue is seldom what is published by a single party.

Halfmile would you be so kind as to explain where the unions get all them millions of dollars to buy Democrat politicians. Isn't true all those millions come from due paying union members? If this is true what difference would it make if some union members vote other wise the union still took some of there money to support Democrats.

Look at the roll the S.E.I.U. is playing in politics. Then tell us how great this union is. They don't care about there members they want to change the way we live.

None of this changes the fact that I don't have a new trap gun!!!

Shoot safe, John

None of this changes the fact that I don't have a new trap gun!!!

Shoot safe, John

whizbang: I don't think all the money the money comes from dues. I suspect a lot of it comes from investment profits of pension fund accounts in some cases. In the case of the IBEW the funds are segregated and held in trust so that's a non issue. I seem to remember a lot of Teamster money loaned to Mafia boyz to build Vegas real estate.

In the second place, it isn't just money. Delivering the vote is one of the main items in the unholy relationship between the Dems and Labor. Without it the politicians will not survive.

I don't purport to be an expert in union balance sheets, and that was not the intent of my post.

International offices of most unions are one issue concerns, and even though the Democrats may be pedophiles and wife beaters, they sell themselves with labor friendly legislation. Would you vote for an honest anti gun person, or a crook who was pro gun?

I reiterate:

Not all of the rank and file vote Democrat. Maybe there is a study of the numbers somewhere.

Many working people have found conservatism to be a survival mechanism. Many people don't care enough to even vote. Tarring all with the same brush is not the hallmark of an intelligent commentator.

HM

Did I say all Unions?? Can some of you radical idiots read.

Ford was going to bring certain car lines back to the US as a result of concessions. Guess who that would have employed?? More UAW members.

The US auto supplier business would have grown. Guess who that would have employed?? How many UAW jobs were lost this year?? 10 of thousands.

The head of the UAW even said that falsehoods(lies for some)were being spread by the locals against the pact. He also said that this is not the same economy (obviously) it was 2 or 5 years ago and most of their members failed to realize that.

likes to shoot & shootover: Thanks for showing your true colors, that of the socialistic left. Either support us or we will "boycott you". If everybody who disliked unions did that you would have "no jobs". It's you radical idiots who give all union workers a bad name. There are 1,000's of great union workers out there who take it in the ear because of you idiots. As far as doing damage to me by you two, I guess I am suppose to quake in my boots. I built my busines from nothing and you two don't scare me. I am still working at age 69 so I can afford my motor home and shoot, I don't have a plush UAW retirement plan with all the health benefits where you can sit on your ass at age 50.

Bring Ford down and you can sit around with the rest of the bretheren, out of work, drinking a beer and saying "we sure showed them didn't we". Pass the kool aid.

Don

First off was this post not started by the same BIGDON that was whinming just last week that there are far to many off topic post to read? As for who's at fault greed on both the union employees and adminstrators is at the root cause of our problems with the economy. CEO's and top managment our over paying them selves and noboody should make $80.00 + and hr for putting doors on a vehicle body as it rolls down the assembly line. We are so far from the days when a person or group started a company took all the risk and worked to build a company using their own money or money the borrowed and paid back. companies giving CEO'S packages that pay them hughe sums of money even if the comaony fails? Union employees that have life time retirement packages and deep discounts on purchases? When do we as individuals start taking responsibility for our selves? At what point do we as a nation relaize that we have priced ourselves out of the manufacturing segment? And start retraining our work force to design new technology and repair that technology once it's built overseas and sent back to this country?

Last car I bought, couple months ago, was a Ford. Why? Ford was the only one of the big three that didn't have their lips attached to "His" butt. For was the only one that restructured before they had to and have tried their darndest to be profitable.

I worked at GM in the sixties. Back then, being a UAW member meant being able to put a nut on a bolt and turn it the right way. I put screws in the trim on bucket seats and made twice what my dad, a teacher, did. I worked at Farmall, IHC, and ran a whole gamut of machines in the engine plant. Much more skill required and about the same rate of pay as screwing seats together. Lost that job when the union walked out over some stupid overtime grief.

In the seventies, I could no longer afford to raise kids on teacher's pay and went to Cat. Wound up in the skilled labor group in research. One of a kind things. Better pay.

Finished up as a supervisor. Had many, many fine UAW members working for me and a few that needed to be somewhere else. I think Cat finally broke the "pattern bargaining" process but it looks like there are still too many UAW members out there that follow the Union line and forget what those they elect will do to them.

I think, from my experience, that most of the UAW boys I knew liked to fish, shoot and hunt. They still voted for Clinton and the others like BO who want to do away with the "blood sports". Can't figure out why.

I probably need to divest myself of stocks in UAW associated companies and buy stock in ammunition companies. At least for a while. Is there hope?

Bruce I suggest you reread the thread you are refering to. I said nothing about off topic threads.

Don

Savage99Stan

"Finished up as a supervisor. Had many, many fine UAW members working for me and a few that needed to be somewhere else."

Stan just a question if I might. I think you have hit on one of the the points that is the biggest reasons that IMO unions need to be gone. Those "few that needed to be somewhere else" Why weren't they not gone why were they still there?

BTW Bruce Specht you had better do some checking on Don whining about off topic posts. Dumb questions yes OT post/threads no other people brought up OT subject. Not Don.

Bob Lawless