Our local club has tried them all and the people come for the orange dome white flyers.....Bob Dodd

I personally like white flyer New York style. More orange so I can see them with the rim of black so they don't appear fuzzy to me. Next preference is the orange dome.

Much depends on your background . We shoot into a tree background so all orange is best for us . Those clubs who have targets going up into a sky background may like black rimed targets better .

Mr. Payne:

ljutic111 makes an important point. Orange dome targets with the black rim are great against a blue sky background. OTOH, they don't show up well against a dark/tree/green background. Throw orange domes against a dark/green/tree background on an overcast day and your shooters will NOT be happy.

sissy

ljutic111 is correct, it depends on the background. Black rim is best for sky targets, NY style is good for a combination of trees and sky. All orange or green targets are best against a solid tree background.

The black rim is important against a sky background because it provides a sharp definition between the sky and the target. Don't try to save a little money by throwing less than the best targets. Putting the best possible targets in the air is the most important thing a club can do.

Pat Ireland

Here at Oxford we throw orange dome black ring targets. They are not perfect for all lighting conditions but some of the area state shoots throw them and the shooters know thats what they will be seeing if they shoot at Millington, or Oxford. Just like they know they will be shooting green targets at Carney. Once you have a tradition going, stick with it if it works.

Personally I wish they were all green. They absolutely show up best for me against any background, day or night. JMHO, but the ATA will NEVER go for that...

Jon Reitz

Mr. Reitz, What does the ATA have to do with target color?

The last I checked (several years ago), the ATA's only stipulation about target coloration is that it be uniform on each trap.

I had to check into that because at a 50-target winter league shoot perhaps 10 years ago, the host club decided to throw all-orange targets on one trap and all-green targets on the other trap to see which color generated the higher scores. It was a registered league but less than a dozen of the 90+ shooters were registering their scores. Three of them complained bitterly about the green targets but two of the complainers shot their best scores of the league thus far that day - a 50 and a 49 - while the third reported the league to the ATA for an alleged rule violation. Nothing ever came of that complaint.

By the way, the scores on the "green" trap were higher than those on the "orange" trap. The club's traps shot over its lake, which was frozen and snow-covered, and its background was the leafless, brown hardwood trees on the far shoreline. The orange targets could be seen over the snow-covered ice but became very hard to see against the trees. The green targets were all but invisible over the pond but showed up nicely against the trees.

Ed

Give me green!!

I do like green targets. And it will surprise many that they are excellent against green trees. The green targets seem to get better when the light gets worse. But, green targets are not great against a sky background.

Pat Ireland

When contemplating black rimmed targets check out each manufactures style. We took advantage of a good price on Lowery black rimmed targets and were very disappointed with those. We had been use to the ones used at the N.E. grand and liked those. There is a lot more black on the lowerys than just the rimm and they are difficult to see.

Pat is right. The worse the background the better is green!!

You have to be careful when buying "black ring" targets. There is an "orange dome" which is a black target with only the dome portion painted orange. White Flyer refers to this target in their plants as a "50-50 target" as about half of it is black and half is orange. Then there is the target White Flyer calls their "New York style" which basically is an all-orange with only the side of the bottom rim left unpainted.

Orange domes are good against a sky background but are harder to see against darker backgrounds like trees. New Yorks can be easily seen against about any background but also show up well in the sky. Both targets appear to be whole, round targets quite quickly without the blurry, streaky appearance of an all-orange.

Ed

One range that I shoot at has a pine tree background. They throw green targets and they look like a spotlight was on them, except for one very small gap where they sky shows and the darn target just disappears.

Bill

Maybe they should start making green targets with orange rims and orange targets with green rims. Personally I never have liked the blacked rimmed targets under any circumstances as I don't even shoot them well. Not sure why but for me it happens.

Mr. Roach,

I know what the current rule states, but I just don't see the ATA ever allowing a universal change in target color from orange to green. It's too.....radical. The ATA is a very set-in-their-ways organization. And again, this is JMHO. No typing wars intended here, nor will I participate.

All,

As for the color, the national safety color itself has changed. Look at the color used for school and highway safety signs. Look at the safety color used for clothing for construction workers and flagmen along the highways. Green is more visible. It tends to attract the eye of most people quicker (most people).

Observe a squad of shooters on the trap field shooting a round of trap with 5-6 green targets sprinkled in the carousel. Just watch. The green ones come out "clear and whole". Lots of shooters will tell you afterward that the green targets even appear bigger and are definitely more visible. Try it.

As for their use against different backgrounds, there’s no doubt that certain backgrounds are not optimum for green targets. But we all know the same is true for orange. And targets used for trap shooting weren’t always orange either, nor was it worn in the woods. Things evolve. JMHO.

Jon Reitz

John's a little wrong in that the ATA could not care less what color target clubs throw for registered shoots as long as all the targets on each trap are the same color. BUT trapshooters very strongly resist anything new and different, so he's real right about orange targets being around for a long time to come. Remember the turmoil when orange was replacing yellow? And when yellow replaced white? And when white replaced black?

Flourescent yellow-green, the name the 3M Company assigned to the green we see on targets, street warning signs, fire apparatus and safety vests these days, is much more visible than orange. But you'll not hear too many trapshooters agreeing with that.

Several years ago, we got into a heated debate on here about target colors and I shipped a 135-count carton of green targets to a poster from Michigan or thereabouts who threw them at his local club. He reported that the shooters said they could see them better but didn't like them as well as orange. Go figure.

The best way to see the difference between any two target colors is to load an automatic trap with alternating columns of the two (or more) colors or load a hand-set machine with alternating colors. I was subjected to that method when Elysburg was considering changing to New York targets from all-orange and held a special shooting meeting for gun club delegates. I went there not wanting to see any change and two posts later, was all in favor of the change.

Ed

We shoot all black in the winter. Our field climbs a hill and is all snow. Target goes from all snow then leafless trees, mostly tree stems. Tough field to shoot. Dave T.

Good thread. The "dawg" will be along here any minute now...

Ed is right about colors and shooters. You also have to factor in lighting conditions. As it happens, I shoot at a variety of clubs and four of the colors mentioned are used.

Four of the clubs I shoot at throw all orange targets. The members of the closest club all swear by all orange. Yet my ATA scores at that club run 6 points lower that at my home club (orange dome). The club faces East, the sun is in front of you until 1PM, and the background sucks. At another club, with an all deciduous tree background, all orange is terrific in the summer, in the afternoon. I shoot well there. At a third club, facing West, I shoot higher than average singles and doubles scores, and my best handicap scores. So there is an 8 point spread in ATA averages between the best and worst clubs throwing all orange targets.

Elysburg throws NY targets. I shoot my best scores on the top line (faces West) and lower scores on the lower line (faces North). Same targets, different backgrounds and different lighting.

A sporting course I shoot is literally in the woods (mixed evergreen and deciduous). So you see brown and green, sun dappled and dark. There are lanes of fire where you simply cannot pick up an all orange target unless you know where it's coming from and can follow it. That makes finding the second bird dicey. When they switched to all green targets a lot of shooters said euuw. They saw them better, shot better and recorded higher scores. They changed their tunes. Now green targets are the cats meow.

Lime Green Targets are Superior. In the the future they will replace the current orange types. Lime Green, easy on vision, numerous advantages.

Gunnerx

Jon, the dawg is out squirrel hunting!!

So we have no dawg in this fight?

Ed I recall that after that shoot there were no targets registered for that league mandated by the ATA

Not this fin topic again. It still baffles me how much Trapshooters do not know about vision. Green target green backround huh......Let me know how that works for you with a nice full sun, also keep track of your handicap scores on that green/green color, Give me a black rim target on ANY backround ANY time for proper scores.

GS

I think the ATA hopes that a clubs throwing registered targets are smart enough to throw targets that are optimum for their shooters. Do they still throw greenies at Reno? I used to go the the GWG there and the all green targets were the best as long as they didn't get into the sky. Once they get in a light background they almost disappeared. I remembered once it snowed at the GWG and, with the snow on the ground and a lot of sunlight the all greens were terrible.

While attending the Las Vegas gun club's Fall Shoot once they threw green domes. I thought they were perfect for that background. Once in the sky the black was very visible and the green really showed up well against the desert part of the background.

Except at night, give me a domed target or the "New York" style. You need that black rim for contrast.

GS- You suggested that you have a superior knowledge of color vision than many other shooters and then spoke against green targets against trees (green background). But, if you look at the amount of light energy in the green spectrum required for the green sensitive cones in the retina to release their transmitter substances, you might reconsider your position. It requires considerable less energy in the blue-green spectrum to fire retinal cones than in the red-orange area of the spectrum.

If you were to attach four lights (red, orange, green, blue) to the back of a car and each light emitted equivalent light energy, as the car drove away, the red and orange lights would disappear from your vision well before the green-blue lights would disappear from your vision.

The leaves in a tree canopy absorb most of the light that strikes them. The color of mature tree leaves is best described as a very dark green ( some green wave length light reflected) and no light reflected (black).

Pat Ireland

Pat, leave your scientific analysis at home please. You've successfully baffled the brains of the green target haters once again. I've found most of the shooters who profess to hate green targets can't hit any other color either!!

Hey Dawg, I was thinking of getting some green targets to try at our club. I think Pat has talked me out of it. Something to do with the color spectrum left in the trees and leaves after they've fallen this time of year. I've always had great respect for Pat's knowledge and opinions. Shoot often while we can, Bob

"Down Ollie! Down! Damn dog".

Ray (680), that league did not stop registering targets because of anything ATA-related - I just became tired of the whiners who were making it tough to run what was supposed to be a "fun" league. I refunded the registration fees to the few who did want to register their targets and did not submit the scores to the ATA.

Funny thing about that ATA complaint was that leagues themselves are not ATA-sanctioned; gun clubs are and an ATA club can apply for regsitration of a league in which it partipates. The only ATA club in that league was the one the person who filed the complaint shot for and it was the one through which the league was registered, so he actually filed a complaint against his own club!

The look on his face when I told him that was priceless. But as I said before, nothing came of it because no ATA rule had been violated.

Ed

Pat, I do not have superior power of "color vision" However I do have knowledge of contrast and contrast is what you need to be able to see something correctly to focus on it. If you can tell me where the contrast is on a green/green background, I will fully endorse those targets. Until then every club that throws them will not have my business. It is not about standing and watching the targets and saying gee Bob those targets look bright or great or any other WRONG moniker you want to tack to it. I would rather say gee Bob look how that target has contrast from its background.....now THERE is a target that is shootable. This reminds me of the hi-vis front bead sights that everyone thought was going to be the standard. Mark this post because when the people shooting green on green get their head out of their a$$ and really try to look at the targets, they will start to make the right decisions and not excuses on what target they can “see” better.

GS

We did a study on green targets at our local 16yd. league several years ago. Under identical conditions two weeks apart nearly twice as many straights were broken on green vs. orange.

We're still shooting orange. One shooter was particularly vocal. Seems she only broke 14/25 on green claiming she couldn't see them. The following week she broke an 11/25 on orange. 'nuff said!!

GS- You are absolutely about the contrast between the background and the target being the critical factor. Your error is simply considering green against green. Try light fluorescent green against very dark green. Also, the worse the light conditions become, the greater is the contrast between the green targets and the darker background.

Pat Ireland

At the White Flyer website it looks like their green is like a yellowy lime green. Nothing in the forest looks like that. That may work for me against my dirt/clay rubble hill and tree trunks. Dave T.

Broke my first 25 straight on green targets!

Chris